Outfitters gone wrong

[Elkpro]

Backcountry Guide Outfitters also known as BC Guide Outfitters... Don't use them.  Had many bad experiences  :cry:

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[Admin]

What happened?

It is important that each customer understands what type of services the outfitter is going to provide and have a clear contract. I suppose the website description is as good as anything. If there is a dispute you can often go to the Outfitter association for the given state or even go to the state licensing board if applicable.

There is also some marketing hype to be aware of:
- Guaranteed trophy: the only way to guarantee anything is to go to the local zoo or Cabelas store

- Access to private land: This does not mean much in the Northeast. The common law is that private land is open to hunters unless otherwise posted. Up here, in New Hampshire, traditionally the paper mills have kept their land unposted and a lot of hunters hunt those private lands.

- For Caribou hunters in remote locations in Northern Canada make sure you understand what it means when the outfitters claim they will fly you to another location if you see no Caribou. [JeanGuy can you comment on that?]

This is what comes to mind right now.

Happy New Year and Happy hunting and fishing

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[r2d2]

Ideally you want an outfitter who lives where he works and has done the scouting before you hire him.

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[JeanGuy]

My experience is mostly with outfitters flying their customers to remote locations in the Labrador region for Caribou hunting. Those guys promess to fly you to another remote location if there is no Caribou at the first location. They generally do but they will wait as long as possible and even when they fly you to another location things are not perfect.

Flying a group of hunters from camp site A to camp site B involve bringing an airplane from the Base to site A, then flying from site A to site B, and then bringing back the airplane to Base. The total trip could take 3 hours and even with the smallest plane we use (the Cessna 185) you are looking at $750 of expenses. For those of you who are not pilot, a Cessna 185 can carry around 700 lbs of hunters + equipement. That's 3 persons at best. We usually do a couple of trips between Site A and B to move everybody and everything. A Cessna 206 or a Beaver have better carrying capacity but they are more expensive to operate. The bottom line is that outfitters do not really want to move you from one site to the next because they are facing a $1000+ bill.

Bottom line, before you book a trip, check with your outfitter under what conditions (after how many days without seeing a Caribou they will fly you to another location).

More often than not the second camp they take you to will already be inhabitted by another group of hunters. If you saw the Survivor show on TV you have the typical 'tribe merge' situation. You will likely endup sleeping on the floor or in not so good conditions and sometimes not being well accepted by the guys already there.

Again talk to your outfitter. Check what will be the accomodations at the second camp and ask questions on this forum or others.

Most of the outfitters I flew for were very good people trying their best to accomodate their customers and give you an enjoyable experience but I have seen few problems.

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[Elkpro]

All kinds of things happened like guides bickering back and forth as to who goes where. No prior scouting. Over booking hunts where he claimed only 6 max. per camp which he had to hire an out of area guide that had no clue of the area that he was guiding! Nothing was pre-planned or thought out in advance prior to the hunt, equipment not ready.  Had a serious gas shortage, limit 4 gal a day,  we once ran out of gas and had to wait till 10:30 at night to be rescued which we missed supper that night!  Strictly a road hunt, the only spot and stock was done from a windshield of a truck on all public land.  Saw very little moose activity while road hunting cause the place was inundated with serious logging activity during the week and other road hunters during the weekend.  My partner shot a nice moose off the road which was the largest one in camp at 46" but was strictly  luck.  The entire camp had a 50% success last fall but I bet you they will claim 90%+ cause any mis opportunities  they claim as kill !
I could go on for several more paragraphs but I think you all get the message.......  Ask very specific questions before booking a hunt with any outfitter in Canada or otherwise cause most of the information they give you and web sites they post are mostly outdated information and a lot of pump, pump and dump marketing ploys. Buddy on a different hunt was stuck using blinds for 6 days without getting a shot or even seeing Bull Caribou up in the North East CA.  "Ask many Questions" !"
Don't use them!  Backcountry  Guide Outfitters also known as BC Guide Outfitters out of Prince George BC.

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[aurorastar]

Yes there are some Outfitters who seem to not be too sure of what they are doing these days. In our business I check any new ones out with the state licensing board for their state, forest service and at least 6 references from them. We over-see an Outfitting & Guide/ Wilderness Camp Cook Training School Program. The problem we have found is a lot of outfits get started just from an individual having bucks to buy someone out. No hands on experience at all! [not in all cases however] We have been doing this over 49 yrs and fortunately the outfits we work with are very reputable. Yes, the best thing to do before a hunt is doing your homework thoroughly.

www.elmguideschool.com

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[IngweSafaris]

I was wondering how long it would take for BC Guides to start having a bad rap. I booked a combo hunt for 2  a few years ago for $3500. Elk bear deer combo :-D .. I booked almost 2 years out. A $500 deposite. Man talk about not being able to get ahold of them after they got your money!!.. I sent our deposite after the second phone call to Mark. Which he was qiuck to answer those calls. After that it was many months before I was able to reached him again ! Excuses Excuses.. He has a voice mail.. Then he told me how that years hunt went.. They were old men and couldnt hunt bla bla bla.. People were tresspassing on there leases. Road hunters ruined it for us.  Basicaly the same story he gave me about the year before's hunt.
I never could get ahold of him for many months again.. So we just blew off the hunt and cut our losses.. Mark has never called me. I quit trying to call him. This all happened a few years ago.
 So they made a quick $1000 for nothing from us :cry: .
 The hunt price is way too cheep. :!: . Get Real! They cant provide a great hunt at those prices.
Move on to another outfitter.

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[sacres]

I have guided for many years. Now this is mostly in the Dakota's and the only big game is whitetail and mule deer. Mostly I guide for pheasants and waterfowl. Let me tell you. For those out there who want to be a guide because you are doing what you love all the time. HA, GOOD ONE! The good guides spend countless hours out scouting and doing things most hard core hunters wouldn't step out of there house for. None of this is seen by customers. I bet I hear 50 times a year, "man I wish I had your job" I have also had many other jobs over the years including corporate managerial jobs and I do like guiding and dog training and handling but.....It is nothing like what people think it is. I know of the horrible stories you are talking about. I hear them every year just on pheasant hunts where their previous year went bad on them due to mostly outfitter error. That is another thing. Normally when there is an issue, rarely is it actually the guides fault. He is dealing with things behind the scenes that the owner is trying to get away with to save a buck. It is unbelievable. I could tell you things you wouldn't believe. I have literally walked off a site one year during the middle of the hunt. Actually I made sure the guys got their limits that day before I left but I just wasn't going to do to these people what the owner of the outfitting business wanted me to. It was extremely unethical. Now there are also some very good ones out there. Ones that cost a lot of money and believe it or not, at least where I am at for waterfowl and upland hunting with a little deer thrown in, they don't make that much profit by the time the dust clears for everything if they are truly trying to give their customers a top notch hunt. I have also run a few lodges over the years which included doing the books. When they ownders would come to me and start the "we could make more if we did this crap" it was time to go. Yes there is always ways to make more money and give a great hunt and I am all for that. That is the name of the game but if it comes to cutting what you guaranteed someone, then it is not acceptable. What it boils down to is this. When you start researching your outfitters, ask to talk with a guide. You will be able to pick up pretty quick on how much knowledge he has and whether or not you are actually talking with the guide or just the owner who is saying he is a guide. Believe it or not, given the right situation a guide will tell you exactly how it is. He knows he is going to have to perform what he says will or should happen. Hunting is hunting and anything and everything could go wrong. I have had it happen to me but I had also bent over backwards to save the hunt for my group. You will know the difference. Ask how long their guides have been working for them. If they have not been there very long, you might want to start thinking about a few things. Always check out as many references as you possibly can. One thing about hunters. We are more of a tight knit group then people might think and will tell it like it is when you are off away from the place. I bet I can predict about 90% of the time if a group in with us or with one of my guides will come back or not. Fortunately the great majority of the time they book before leaving but it isn't like that most places. Anyway, the best way to prevent this kind of stuff from happening is to do a lot of home work on a place. Always, always ask to talk to the head guide and ask if he is an owner or relative of the owner. If he is in a situation where he can, he will more then likely speak freely and rightfully so. Anyway, good luck with your hunts this and next season. I hope you do find the outfitters you are looking for. I do feel sorry for the big game guides. Most of what happens is absolutely out of their control. If you get a good one and I mean a good one, stick with him. You are in the minority and not the majority. The best hunters in the world don't always make the best guides. Guides have tons of things to factor into hunts including their customers health and abilities. Yea they couldn't hit anything is not a comment a guide or outfitter should make, ever. This is hunting, not killing. When you have a person you are guiding that has limitations on what he can do as far as walking distance or terrain, whether he can crawl a mile on his knees and stomach. Those are things the good guides have figured out how to get around. Most of them don't. Have a good one.

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[JeanGuy]

These days it is very easy to ask for references. Good outfitters will send you a list of recent customers. Call or email them! Really.

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